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	<title>Comments for Rail for the Valley</title>
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	<link>http://www.railforthevalley.com</link>
	<description>Rail for the Valley</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 20 Feb 2012 08:10:23 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on Review of Light Rail/Tramway costs by Dudley Horscroft</title>
		<link>http://www.railforthevalley.com/news-articles/review-of-light-railtramway-costs/#comment-12271</link>
		<dc:creator>Dudley Horscroft</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Feb 2012 08:10:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.railforthevalley.com/?p=6625#comment-12271</guid>
		<description>Unsubstantiated reports indicate that the heritage tramway extensions being built in Christchurch, NZ, before the earthquake, was costing $NZ5000 per km single track.  Double track, using the same stndards, would be $NZ10M per km.  Wiork has been interrupted while the damaged buildings are being demolished or made safe, but the tramway was barely damaged.

It may be assumed that diversion of utilities was negligible.  Track standards accommodate double deck trams, so should be sufficient for any modern single deck tram.

Canadian, and other NA transit experts would be well advised to contact Christchurch City Council for further information re the work being done.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Unsubstantiated reports indicate that the heritage tramway extensions being built in Christchurch, NZ, before the earthquake, was costing $NZ5000 per km single track.  Double track, using the same stndards, would be $NZ10M per km.  Wiork has been interrupted while the damaged buildings are being demolished or made safe, but the tramway was barely damaged.</p>
<p>It may be assumed that diversion of utilities was negligible.  Track standards accommodate double deck trams, so should be sufficient for any modern single deck tram.</p>
<p>Canadian, and other NA transit experts would be well advised to contact Christchurch City Council for further information re the work being done.</p>
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		<title>Comment on TransLink and the Canada Line &#8211; The real story &#8211; Part 2 by rico</title>
		<link>http://www.railforthevalley.com/latest-news/zweisystem/translink-and-the-canada-line-the-real-story-part-2/#comment-12227</link>
		<dc:creator>rico</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Feb 2012 04:09:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.railforthevalley.com/?p=6656#comment-12227</guid>
		<description>It is very frustrating i could not find the sources listed for the wiki graph i referenced....however because the y axis is % public transit work commute i assume the canadian numbers would be from the stats can long form census....guess there wont be any updates....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is very frustrating i could not find the sources listed for the wiki graph i referenced&#8230;.however because the y axis is % public transit work commute i assume the canadian numbers would be from the stats can long form census&#8230;.guess there wont be any updates&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>Comment on TransLink and the Canada Line &#8211; The real story &#8211; Part 2 by zweisystem</title>
		<link>http://www.railforthevalley.com/latest-news/zweisystem/translink-and-the-canada-line-the-real-story-part-2/#comment-12211</link>
		<dc:creator>zweisystem</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Feb 2012 13:24:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.railforthevalley.com/?p=6656#comment-12211</guid>
		<description>Again, the numbers reported from TransLink are unvetted and they could be numbers pulled out of a hat for all the public knows. This is why we need annual or biannual audits of TransLink.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Again, the numbers reported from TransLink are unvetted and they could be numbers pulled out of a hat for all the public knows. This is why we need annual or biannual audits of TransLink.</p>
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		<title>Comment on TransLink and the Canada Line &#8211; The real story &#8211; Part 2 by zweisystem</title>
		<link>http://www.railforthevalley.com/latest-news/zweisystem/translink-and-the-canada-line-the-real-story-part-2/#comment-12210</link>
		<dc:creator>zweisystem</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Feb 2012 13:21:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.railforthevalley.com/?p=6656#comment-12210</guid>
		<description>Until TransLink has an independent audit, including ridership, the public will not know how good or how bad the transit service is. That the minister for transportation and the BC government do not want BC&#039;s Auditor General to audit TransLink tells me that there are many and serious problems with the agency.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Until TransLink has an independent audit, including ridership, the public will not know how good or how bad the transit service is. That the minister for transportation and the BC government do not want BC&#8217;s Auditor General to audit TransLink tells me that there are many and serious problems with the agency.</p>
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		<title>Comment on TransLink and the Canada Line &#8211; The real story &#8211; Part 2 by Rico</title>
		<link>http://www.railforthevalley.com/latest-news/zweisystem/translink-and-the-canada-line-the-real-story-part-2/#comment-12196</link>
		<dc:creator>Rico</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Feb 2012 23:55:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.railforthevalley.com/?p=6656#comment-12196</guid>
		<description>The ridership thing got me looking.  Wiki has a table Public Transport Use in North America it uses 2010 numbers, quite interesting.  Mexican numbers are higher than Canadian numbers that are higher than American numbers (except for NY).  The chart uses metro area population and % work commute.  Montreal, Toronto and Ottawa have higher numbers than Vancouver but Vancouver is well above the rest of the pack including ALL american cities except NY.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The ridership thing got me looking.  Wiki has a table Public Transport Use in North America it uses 2010 numbers, quite interesting.  Mexican numbers are higher than Canadian numbers that are higher than American numbers (except for NY).  The chart uses metro area population and % work commute.  Montreal, Toronto and Ottawa have higher numbers than Vancouver but Vancouver is well above the rest of the pack including ALL american cities except NY.</p>
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		<title>Comment on LIGHT RAIL FIRM RELEASES INDEPENDENT ANALYSIS OF KEVIN FALCON TRANSIT STUDY by Bryan Vogler</title>
		<link>http://www.railforthevalley.com/latest-news/john-buker/light-rail-firm-releases-independent-analysis-of-kevin-falcon-transit-study/#comment-12189</link>
		<dc:creator>Bryan Vogler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Feb 2012 22:35:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.railforthevalley.com/?p=5539#comment-12189</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the feedback.
It is always helpful to correct me, constructive critics like we have here are wonderful.  All of us are train fans with our emotions, and sometimes expressing them jiggers the facts or points we are trying to get across.  
It makes a democratic process and freedom of expression that shows are differences. Sometimes we fall victim to time constraints and get lost in our own mumble jumble.  Speed not only kills on the highway, it may kill thoughts too.
     I am going to try and set my thoughts in some sort of pattern we can all understand.
1992- The Federal Progressive Conservative Party had a cross country Transportation Study done chaired by Lou Hyndman a Alberta conservative M.L.A.  It  became the tattoo of Transportation for the next forty years.  In Transportation planning that is not to far reaching.  It covered High speed rail recomending three corridors;
1. Montreal to Toronto
2. Edmonton to Calgary
3. Chilliwack to Vancouver
Problems

Montreal -Toronto- C.N.Rail a  private company owned by the giant, Illinois-Central of the U.S. owns the operation rights.  Via Rail the current operator of passenger rail between these cities holds it by contract only.  Owned by the government, which has an obligation to supply passenger rail, there is no incentive to improve it.
Toronto Regional Commuter Rail System operates on a lease agreement using the right of way and ajacent land.
If there were going to be high speed rail in this corridor it would have to be an agreement between railways, provinces and the federal government.  This complicated method has not shown much promise so far.  The arguments for high speed rail have continued since before 1992, and it no solutions for them have been approved.
School is still out in the most populated train corridor in Canada.

Edmonton- Calgary-  Located in prime Conservative Alberta, this high speed rail corridor is flat, and can use maximum speed along the Highway 2 right of way.  It can join both International airports together and join both light rail systems of both cities together.  Weather used to be a questionable reason to maybe think twice, however with the new St.Petersburg-Helsinki high speed rail opened by Putin of Russia two years ago, its now not a challenge.
Calgary and Edmonton are poised for huge growth because of lower housing prices, and the petroleum industry.
There is not much opposition to the plan, and because in the the past the air bus hourly service between the two cities was so successful, high speed rail if it were two hours or less would be popular.  
Chilliwack-Vancouver
This corridor was recommended by The Royal Commission on Passenger transportation also.  I huge submission was put in by the Lower Mainland Commuter Rail Consortium which implemented The West Coast Express.  The original commuter rail run was the B.N. right of way,  however when B.N. refused to buy C.N. a proposal to build a susbtitute line through Sapperton to lougheed mall and west parelleling the B.N. tracks, as C.P.R. had agreed to take the W.C.E earlier in 1993.  It was a decade of excitiment across the nation when at the manufacturing level the plant was making identical cars for Los Angles, Toronto and San Diego.  B.C. hoped on the order form for a fleet purchase also.  
At the B.C. Policing Commission hearings in Burnaby a plan was presented to Cheif Justice Wallace Oppal to have hig speed rail tofollow the freeway once all construction was done to remove overpasses to a higher level and eliminate all level crossings on the freeway.  It was approved to make police response better to the public demands, with faster response times and putting people on a train to get them faster to there destination in a safe way.
When former Preimer Glen Clark  recommended the North-East sector Review Committees findings and past Bill 3 in Victoria it paved the way for all this to happen and be finished by 2014.  Today we are two years from that date and Abbotsford Council passed a recommendation to support any passenger rail route coming to there city or area.
Langey passed the light rail line from Willowbrook to the Freeway station and beyond allong the 200th street corridor.
Recently Surrey put light rail at the top of there list with a planed light rail line joining Gateway skytrain station to Guilford Station on the Freeway.  
The proposals and City plans await the government approvals, which is the next step.  The Interurban line is a south feeder line, and the milage between the freeway on the north side and theInterban track on the south side is low for a huge area of growing population that escapes accurate cencus. 
This is going to be a contest for the west and it comes at a time of growth and past prosperity that seems unstoppable as real estate prices continue to rise on both corridors. 
The planning and submissions of the past have prooved there worth to mass public transportation, yet today it is fragmented into groups that need to form a Consortium under one roof and speak together and plan together. 
We have all this in common and the pieces are together, it will not take much to push public will our way, and the political tide will follow in the next election.  I suggest this proposal be put forth at the meeting later this month at Langley City hall put on by one of the groups. Lets thow are hats into the ring.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the feedback.<br />
It is always helpful to correct me, constructive critics like we have here are wonderful.  All of us are train fans with our emotions, and sometimes expressing them jiggers the facts or points we are trying to get across.<br />
It makes a democratic process and freedom of expression that shows are differences. Sometimes we fall victim to time constraints and get lost in our own mumble jumble.  Speed not only kills on the highway, it may kill thoughts too.<br />
     I am going to try and set my thoughts in some sort of pattern we can all understand.<br />
1992- The Federal Progressive Conservative Party had a cross country Transportation Study done chaired by Lou Hyndman a Alberta conservative M.L.A.  It  became the tattoo of Transportation for the next forty years.  In Transportation planning that is not to far reaching.  It covered High speed rail recomending three corridors;<br />
1. Montreal to Toronto<br />
2. Edmonton to Calgary<br />
3. Chilliwack to Vancouver<br />
Problems</p>
<p>Montreal -Toronto- C.N.Rail a  private company owned by the giant, Illinois-Central of the U.S. owns the operation rights.  Via Rail the current operator of passenger rail between these cities holds it by contract only.  Owned by the government, which has an obligation to supply passenger rail, there is no incentive to improve it.<br />
Toronto Regional Commuter Rail System operates on a lease agreement using the right of way and ajacent land.<br />
If there were going to be high speed rail in this corridor it would have to be an agreement between railways, provinces and the federal government.  This complicated method has not shown much promise so far.  The arguments for high speed rail have continued since before 1992, and it no solutions for them have been approved.<br />
School is still out in the most populated train corridor in Canada.</p>
<p>Edmonton- Calgary-  Located in prime Conservative Alberta, this high speed rail corridor is flat, and can use maximum speed along the Highway 2 right of way.  It can join both International airports together and join both light rail systems of both cities together.  Weather used to be a questionable reason to maybe think twice, however with the new St.Petersburg-Helsinki high speed rail opened by Putin of Russia two years ago, its now not a challenge.<br />
Calgary and Edmonton are poised for huge growth because of lower housing prices, and the petroleum industry.<br />
There is not much opposition to the plan, and because in the the past the air bus hourly service between the two cities was so successful, high speed rail if it were two hours or less would be popular.<br />
Chilliwack-Vancouver<br />
This corridor was recommended by The Royal Commission on Passenger transportation also.  I huge submission was put in by the Lower Mainland Commuter Rail Consortium which implemented The West Coast Express.  The original commuter rail run was the B.N. right of way,  however when B.N. refused to buy C.N. a proposal to build a susbtitute line through Sapperton to lougheed mall and west parelleling the B.N. tracks, as C.P.R. had agreed to take the W.C.E earlier in 1993.  It was a decade of excitiment across the nation when at the manufacturing level the plant was making identical cars for Los Angles, Toronto and San Diego.  B.C. hoped on the order form for a fleet purchase also.<br />
At the B.C. Policing Commission hearings in Burnaby a plan was presented to Cheif Justice Wallace Oppal to have hig speed rail tofollow the freeway once all construction was done to remove overpasses to a higher level and eliminate all level crossings on the freeway.  It was approved to make police response better to the public demands, with faster response times and putting people on a train to get them faster to there destination in a safe way.<br />
When former Preimer Glen Clark  recommended the North-East sector Review Committees findings and past Bill 3 in Victoria it paved the way for all this to happen and be finished by 2014.  Today we are two years from that date and Abbotsford Council passed a recommendation to support any passenger rail route coming to there city or area.<br />
Langey passed the light rail line from Willowbrook to the Freeway station and beyond allong the 200th street corridor.<br />
Recently Surrey put light rail at the top of there list with a planed light rail line joining Gateway skytrain station to Guilford Station on the Freeway.<br />
The proposals and City plans await the government approvals, which is the next step.  The Interurban line is a south feeder line, and the milage between the freeway on the north side and theInterban track on the south side is low for a huge area of growing population that escapes accurate cencus.<br />
This is going to be a contest for the west and it comes at a time of growth and past prosperity that seems unstoppable as real estate prices continue to rise on both corridors.<br />
The planning and submissions of the past have prooved there worth to mass public transportation, yet today it is fragmented into groups that need to form a Consortium under one roof and speak together and plan together.<br />
We have all this in common and the pieces are together, it will not take much to push public will our way, and the political tide will follow in the next election.  I suggest this proposal be put forth at the meeting later this month at Langley City hall put on by one of the groups. Lets thow are hats into the ring.</p>
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		<title>Comment on TransLink and the Canada Line &#8211; The real story &#8211; Part 2 by Rico</title>
		<link>http://www.railforthevalley.com/latest-news/zweisystem/translink-and-the-canada-line-the-real-story-part-2/#comment-12186</link>
		<dc:creator>Rico</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Feb 2012 21:46:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.railforthevalley.com/?p=6656#comment-12186</guid>
		<description>Actually my point was Edmonton likely has way more &#039;subsidized&#039; riders with the HighSchools and Seniors (I would assume they have a program for university students as well) than Translinks&#039; U-pass.  Personally I think U-pass is a good idea as it reduces costs for students and hopefully sets a lifelong pattern of using transit (not to mention reducing pollution etc.).  For the record it would not matter if the universities are served by the LRT or not (UBC and SFU aren&#039;t)....However U of A is on the LRT and NAIT is on the under construction extention of the LRT.  As for losses to the system due to the U-pass I can&#039;t say but fare recovery has risen significantly at Translink over the time it has been in use so obviously the impact can&#039;t be too significant and may be positive.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually my point was Edmonton likely has way more &#8216;subsidized&#8217; riders with the HighSchools and Seniors (I would assume they have a program for university students as well) than Translinks&#8217; U-pass.  Personally I think U-pass is a good idea as it reduces costs for students and hopefully sets a lifelong pattern of using transit (not to mention reducing pollution etc.).  For the record it would not matter if the universities are served by the LRT or not (UBC and SFU aren&#8217;t)&#8230;.However U of A is on the LRT and NAIT is on the under construction extention of the LRT.  As for losses to the system due to the U-pass I can&#8217;t say but fare recovery has risen significantly at Translink over the time it has been in use so obviously the impact can&#8217;t be too significant and may be positive.</p>
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		<title>Comment on TransLink and the Canada Line &#8211; The real story &#8211; Part 2 by zweisystem</title>
		<link>http://www.railforthevalley.com/latest-news/zweisystem/translink-and-the-canada-line-the-real-story-part-2/#comment-12185</link>
		<dc:creator>zweisystem</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Feb 2012 21:25:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.railforthevalley.com/?p=6656#comment-12185</guid>
		<description>It depends how many schools and universities the Edmonton LRT serves. With SkyTrain and the Canada Line feeding university students to various campuses and multiple trip made by U-Pass holders (up to 8 a day Zwei has been told by TransLink types) means a sizable numbers of tips are being made by relatively few students. There are now over 100,000 U-passes issued ans no one knows if they are being used legitimately or not. The fear is, the metro system is taking to much out of the revenue pool from buses due to $1.00 a day U-Pass holders making more trip than they are being credited for.

It is Zwei&#039;s understanding that the U-Pass was designed for 33% usage or only 33% of students using the pass, in reality over 70% of the U-passes are being used, which means the U-Pass program is being subsidized by bus revenue.

Unless there is a full independent audit of ridership on the metro and buses, TransLink can invent any ridership number it wants and has been known to do so.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It depends how many schools and universities the Edmonton LRT serves. With SkyTrain and the Canada Line feeding university students to various campuses and multiple trip made by U-Pass holders (up to 8 a day Zwei has been told by TransLink types) means a sizable numbers of tips are being made by relatively few students. There are now over 100,000 U-passes issued ans no one knows if they are being used legitimately or not. The fear is, the metro system is taking to much out of the revenue pool from buses due to $1.00 a day U-Pass holders making more trip than they are being credited for.</p>
<p>It is Zwei&#8217;s understanding that the U-Pass was designed for 33% usage or only 33% of students using the pass, in reality over 70% of the U-passes are being used, which means the U-Pass program is being subsidized by bus revenue.</p>
<p>Unless there is a full independent audit of ridership on the metro and buses, TransLink can invent any ridership number it wants and has been known to do so.</p>
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		<title>Comment on TransLink and the Canada Line &#8211; The real story &#8211; Part 2 by rico</title>
		<link>http://www.railforthevalley.com/latest-news/zweisystem/translink-and-the-canada-line-the-real-story-part-2/#comment-12179</link>
		<dc:creator>rico</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Feb 2012 16:32:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.railforthevalley.com/?p=6656#comment-12179</guid>
		<description>I was interested about the edmonton transit numbers as they seemed counter intuitive to what i know.  Unfortunately i could not find the info using your links so i used the data from APTA up to 3rd quarter 2011.  It showed edmonton had a higher number of transit trips per weekday per capita than vancouver that had a higher number than calgary.  Two big catches the ETS services only edmonton not the entire metro area....translink serves the entire GVRD and calgary most of its metro area.  So a better comparison would be the numbers just in Vancouver.....which i did not look up.  My understanding is highschool students and seniors ride free on ETS...kind of puts upass to shame huh? Mees&#039;s numbers for contiguous metro areas shows vancouver well above calgary which is well above edmonton in 2010.  I would expect a surge from edmonton and calgary as their LRT projects are completed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was interested about the edmonton transit numbers as they seemed counter intuitive to what i know.  Unfortunately i could not find the info using your links so i used the data from APTA up to 3rd quarter 2011.  It showed edmonton had a higher number of transit trips per weekday per capita than vancouver that had a higher number than calgary.  Two big catches the ETS services only edmonton not the entire metro area&#8230;.translink serves the entire GVRD and calgary most of its metro area.  So a better comparison would be the numbers just in Vancouver&#8230;..which i did not look up.  My understanding is highschool students and seniors ride free on ETS&#8230;kind of puts upass to shame huh? Mees&#8217;s numbers for contiguous metro areas shows vancouver well above calgary which is well above edmonton in 2010.  I would expect a surge from edmonton and calgary as their LRT projects are completed.</p>
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		<title>Comment on TransLink and the Canada Line &#8211; The real story &#8211; Part 2 by zweisystem</title>
		<link>http://www.railforthevalley.com/latest-news/zweisystem/translink-and-the-canada-line-the-real-story-part-2/#comment-12150</link>
		<dc:creator>zweisystem</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Feb 2012 16:44:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.railforthevalley.com/?p=6656#comment-12150</guid>
		<description>Not biased at all Rico. TransLink, as BC Transit before, have had a free ride in the mainstream media and not all what is printed is fact. The Vancouver Sun, especially is notorious glad-handing SkyTrain/Canada Line and TransLink. That the Georgia Straight (which has always printed the stories the MSM will not on transit) printed this story and the responses by well informed people in the comments section are contrary to what you would like to think, shows that there is a vacuum in transit news in the region.

As for the blog, we are read and well regarded overseas and the blog is also vetted by transportation experts, who find much of what passes for transit news in the region as a bit of a joke.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not biased at all Rico. TransLink, as BC Transit before, have had a free ride in the mainstream media and not all what is printed is fact. The Vancouver Sun, especially is notorious glad-handing SkyTrain/Canada Line and TransLink. That the Georgia Straight (which has always printed the stories the MSM will not on transit) printed this story and the responses by well informed people in the comments section are contrary to what you would like to think, shows that there is a vacuum in transit news in the region.</p>
<p>As for the blog, we are read and well regarded overseas and the blog is also vetted by transportation experts, who find much of what passes for transit news in the region as a bit of a joke.</p>
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