One Last Gasp For SkyTrain In Quebec – Will The Liberals See Through The Ruse?

Though the Bombardier and SNC owned ART (SkyTrain, they hold the patents) proprietary railway is not mentioned, I would bet the farm that Bombardier and SNC are behind this to build an ART automatic railway.

Bombardier’s home province is Quebec, yet Quebec has never built with the proprietary ICTS/ALRT/ALM/ART (SkyTrain in Vancouver, well not quite) now, with their aero division in financial difficulty and are in negotiations in Ottawa for a bailout; a light-metro project surfaces in Montreal.

The foul odor of Quebec politics, hangs over this announcement like fresh chicken manure.

In a telephone conversation with Surrey’s chief engineer, the chap told Zwei that the cost for LRT in Surrey was about $80 million/km and that for SkyTrain, $130 million/km. yet this ambitious 67 km project, due to be finished by the end of 2020 is estimated to cost a mere $82 million/km!

Yes and I have a shares in the Port Mann Bridge to sell you too!

The Honolulu 32 km, USD $6.5 billion (CAD $8.2 billion) light-metro is also way over budget and there are now calls to shorten its route.

Something just does not add with a light-metro project over twice as long as Honolulu’s under construction light metro, but costing $2.7 billion less?

Added to this, it will be in full operation in just four years?

Whoa, hold on there partner, something does not add up, but costs never add up in Quebec and now is the first real test for Trudeau’s liberals to say no to a project that is obviously ill planned and poorly costed out.!

This must be the last gasp of ART as it was obsolete before it was born; now ridiculously cheap in its last gasps.

Please could someone put it out of its misery and at the same time, save the Canadian taxpayer a lot of money.

Light-metro, looks nice in graphics,

but hugely expensive to build and equally expensive to operate.

$5.5B project funded by province’s pension fund would span West Island, South Shore

ByAi??Benjamin Shingler, Steve Rukavina, CBC News Posted: Apr 22, 2016

One of the new commuter rail stations envisioned by the Caisse de dAi??pA?t et placement du QuAi??bec.One of the new commuter rail stations envisioned by the Caisse de dAi??pA?t et placement du QuAi??bec. (Caisse de dAi??pA?t et placement du QuAi??bec)
Quebec’s pension fund,Ai??theAi??Caisse de dAi??pA?t et placement du QuAi??bec,Ai??is proposing to fund an ambitious new commuter rail line thatAi??would change the face of public transitAi??in Montreal.

The electric, fully automated 67-kilometre rail line would connect 24 stationsAi??stretching from the South Shore to Montreal’s TrudeauAi??airport and beyond, to both theAi??West Island and Laval.

Under the proposal, trains would operate seven days a week fromAi??5:00 a.m.Ai??to 1:00 a.m.

The system would use a combination of existing and newly built stations ai??i??Ai??and would fulfil two long-standing demands of commuters, the Train de l’OuestAi??and light rail on the new Champlain Bridge.

The Caisse says it’s willing to invest $3 billion in the $5.5-billionAi??project.Ai??The province and the federal government would have to makeAi??up the rest.

The plan is to have the trainAi??running by 2020.

MapA map of the proposed rail line that would connect Montreal’s West Island, South Shore and Laval. ( Caisse de dAi??pA?t et Placement)


For the rest of the story……….


4 Responses to “One Last Gasp For SkyTrain In Quebec – Will The Liberals See Through The Ruse?”
  1. eric chris says:

    Wow. Let’s see, “invest” in DIRT to cut real transit use and increase public transit costs. Pour lots of concrete for DIRT to run in concrete subways and on concrete viaducts. Degrade the environment to produce cement releasing CO2 for the concrete subways and viaducts required for DIRT…

    Public transit has devolved to benefit the providers of public transit rather than the users of public transit. I’m going to use TransLink as an example but the same goes for public transit in Quebec and elsewhere in Canada, as well as for Honolulu in the USA.

    TransLink consists of hundreds of planners and others having no purpose other than to take orders from their managers, directors and CEO appointed by the provincial government. While the rest of British Columbia has public transit provided by BC Transit, Metro Vancouver has public transit provided by TransLink which duplicates all the top level jobs for public transit by BC Transit. Mindless minions at TransLink supply reports and studies to their managers, directors and CEO for the managers, directors and CEO to have something to read and do.

    All the 600 staff at TransLink have the latest gadgetry including smart-phones to keep in touch with their boss and computers to send those all important “emails” to their boss. They don’t do real work or figure anything out to cut costs. In fact, there is more incentive to waste money as the budget for public transit can be raised by either cutting back on public transit service or crippling public transit service (express buses slowing down and mucking up public transit to UBC) for TransLink to use its toady reporters to splash pictures of suffering transit users in the major newspapers. Ultimately, TransLink can extort whatever funding TransLink seeks for public transit in this way.

    Public transit is everyone’s meal ticket at TransLink. They could just as easily be presiding over people shoveling horse manure all day instead of people providing public transit. No one at TransLink knows anything about good engineering practice for public transit or electrical and mechanical design for public transit. These are things that are treated as commodities to be hired out to engineering firms. I wonder how long Microsoft or Apple might survive if they farmed out their engineering as a commodity, as TransLink does for public transit?

    Most users of public transit are trapped in the lower socio-economic spectrum. They go to school, they do menial work, they do no work and they barely survive. They are society’s most needy. “Sponging” off them at TransLink are the 600 supposed planners, managers, vice-presidents, presidents, directors and CEO scoring ridiculous salaries, benefits and pensions. I find this utterly disgusting, but hey, I’m too sensitive, some say. It’s the way things are, get over, I’m told, be part of it and prosper, I’m advised. No thanks. I don’t hang with pukesters and have minimum standards as well as principles.

    Take away TransLink’s consulting budget for the engineering firms hired by TransLink and what do you have? Nothing. Same goes for public transit in Edmonton, Montreal and Toronto, That’s it for my rant, today.

  2. Haveacow says:

    Now I remember that the joining of two separate projects, the West Island LRT and the Champlain Bridge line, was the idea of the Casse de Depot. That was their way of making the project strong enough for them to invest. They are going to run the line through an internal “hired hand “company, CDPQ Infra. They are in control! They were planning on using a lot of existing rights of way and by the look of the route, they are (Montreal has a lot of unused rail lines) ! Then the costs could come down on a per km basis. But it also looks like they plan to share the Mount Royal Tunnel right of way which is used by two of AMT’s Commuter Rail Lines! This brings in legal issues and Transport Canada safety questions to answer!

    What I find distressing is that, before the Casse de Depot was very much intent on using traditional LRT technology and judging by the picture they are using, a Light Metro type vehicle is being considered. Their system description is so close to that of the Skytrain, even their stations are planned to be 80 metres long. However, this is Quebec and they do have a long habit of making announcements like this very early in the planning process. Many times in the past, projects have been announced with even greater grandeur, long before even basic planning has taken place. It will not be running by 2020, that I can guarantee to you. I have sent a letter asking for an explanation on my professional letterhead to CDPQ Infra,making the point that Bombardier as well as many other companies have very fine but true Light Rail Vehicles for sale. It seems they have gone back to calling the ART 300 technology Light rail again. I also pointed out that this is a Light Metro system and a true LRT system will give their investors a better return on investment.

  3. Dan G. Rawlings says:

    No they will not see through the ruse. When it comes to Quebec the Liberals spend all the $$$ they can.

  4. eric chris says:

    To call driverless induction rail transit (DIRT) an “investment” is downright asinine. Investment in DIRT by the Liberal Party of Canada is really funneling money from taxpayers to Bombardier and SNC Lavalin manufacturing DIRT and building DIRT lines, respectively.

    “Trudeau hailed the proposal as the kind of project the government is excited to invest in.
    This is one of the priorities of this government, to invest in public transit, Trudeau said.”

    Sales for DIRT have hardly been brisk. In Canada, everywhere DIRT has been used, public transit has floundered. Few to no cars will be removed from the roads with DIRT recycling passengers from buses, to make the reason for DIRT (take cars off the roads) a lie.

    Compared to conventional LRT or tram service at grade with regenerative braking to reverse the polarity of the squirrel cage motors for energy recovery, DIRT service with woefully inefficient linear induction motors uses about 50% more energy. To use DIRT and avoid the electrocution of passengers, expensive subways and viaducts must be constructed to separate DIRT from passengers. Concrete used for the subway and viaduct lines for DIRT results in dredging of sand from the oceans to cause serious social and environmental impacts:

    Limestone heated to produce cement for concrete undergoes calcination to release CO2. Kilns burning fossil fuels to produce the cement add to the release of CO2, leading to climate change which DIRT is supposedly being constructed to mitigate. Clearly, more education in basic chemistry is necessary for the proponents of DIRT proposed to curb CO2 emissions.

    Ridership measured by the number of passengers transferred to DIRT from buses goes up but the number of people using public transit does not, and DIRT merely results in the creation of a very expensive and inefficient secondary-frequent feeder-bus network with few passengers on board most of the time to get passengers to the DIRT stations located miles apart in distance. Typically, anyone transferring to DIRT from a bus waits 15 minutes to be recycled to DIRT.

    Recycling passengers from buses to DIRT makes DIRT slower than conventional transit: LRT, trams or buses. Public transit with DIRT adds buses to the roads to clog the roads and makes the operating cost for bus service (which is not added to the cost of DIRT) spiral out of control.

    Anyone who “invests” in DIRT is stupid, corrupt or both. Citizens throughout Canada will be paying for the “investment” in DIRT and will receive higher taxes in return for their “investment” in DIRT.

    In Montreal, taxpayers will be saddled with inefficient and costly to operate DIRT which will eventually bankrupt public transit in Montreal just as the investment in DIRT in Vancouver bankrupt TransLink which is $3.6 billion in the hole after investing in DIRT in Vancouver.

    Here’s the math on the rate of return on the “investment” in DIRT for Montreal: each kilometre of DIRT requires seven support-buses with each bus costing about $120 per hour. Annually in Montreal, the support-buses required for the 67 km of DIRT will cost taxpayers in Montreal about $200 million (based upon the cost of the support-busing for the 69 km of DIRT in Vancouver) for a rate of return of minus 4% on their $5.5 billion investment.

    Okayzzz. I don’t call this an investment, I call it a loss and it only includes the cost of the support buses for DIRT. Apparently, spending billions of dollars on DIRT and burning money with a blowtorch to run DIRT is now an “investment”. Everything’s going to be fine again with DIRT in Montreal as it is with DIRT in Vancouver… or is it…

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