Man of Straw Arguments
“Man of Straw” argument:
The straw man fallacy is an informal fallacy, which means that the flaw lies with the arguer’s method of arguing rather than the flaws of the argument itself. The straw man fallacy avoids the opponent’s actual argument and instead argues against an inaccurate caricature of it.
When dealing with arguments against Rail for the Valley’s regional railway project, most arguments tend to be man of straw fallacy’s in an attempt to demonize the concept of a regional railway.
The following are the six common “man-of-straw” arguments made against the Valley Rail project.
- Cannot operate a viable rail service on single track railway lines.
- Freight and passenger services cannot operate on the same line.
- Road/rail crossings will slow service.
- It is faster by car.
- It is better option to run rail on the median of Hwy.1.
- Will not attract ridership.
I will deal with each one of the the top six fallacies.
Cannot operate a viable rail service on single track railway lines.
This has been dealt with in the previous post as many passenger rail lines operate wholly or on portions of single track. In Ottawa, 15 minute headway’s will be achievable, with properly placed passing loops.
Road/rail crossings will slow service.
This old saw has been around for decades and it is one of the favourites of the anti rail lobby. Level crossing, both protected by a gate with lights, or with lights, does not slow the rail service and for auto traffic, the wait times are the same as for a regular light controlled intersection.
Freight and Passenger services cannot operate on the same line.
Another old saw that is trundled out at almost every public meeting, again has no validity. Modern electronic signalling has all but eliminated operational conflicts between freight and passenger services, providing safe “pathways” for each service on sections of line. These “blocks” allow for safe operation. In some jurisdictions, freight service is only allowed to operate after the cessation of passenger service each day. In Germany, TramTrains (streetcars that can operate on the mainline railways) coexist with both passenger and freight services on the mainline!
It is faster by car.
This is almost always true for transit, as a transit route is designed to maximize ridership, while providing a timely and user-friendly service. What is not included is congestion and gridlock. The idea that saving 15 minutes in travel time driving the car, dealing with traffic, idiot drivers and more is a worthwhile trade-off to take transit.
It is better option to run rail on the median of Hwy.1.
This is becoming the great refrain of people especially the SkyTrain Lobby. building a transit line along Hwy.1 would be hugely expensive and it would not service many destinations, four or five at best.
Rail for the Valley’s Marpole to Chilliwack services at least 13 major destinations, including three KPU campuses (Cloverdale, Langley, Abbotsford) and Trinity Western University.
Cost is another factor. The 130 km RftV/Leewood study would cost under $2 billion, while a 90 km, Lougheed Mall to Chilliwack would cost a minimum of $28 billion
Will not attract ridership.
As mentioned previously the RftV/Leewood plan would service:
- South Vancouver (15 minute transfer to YVR via the Canada Line)
- New Westminster
- North Delta
- Central Surrey
- Cloverdale (front door service to KPU and the new hospital being constructed)
- Langley
- KPU Langley
- Trinity Western University (front door service)
- Gloucester Business Park
- Downtown Abbotsford
- Hunntington/Sumas (easy walking distance (150m) to the US Border)
- Sadris/Vedder (minutes away from Cultus lake)
- Chilliwack
When it comes to defending SkyTrain, all the SkyTrain Lobby has is “Man of straw arguments“, and in the real world, this does not pass as facts.
TramTrain Zwikau, Germany.
The major reason why translink did not approve or go further with study It doesn’t hit the downtown course Chilliwack, Abbotsford, Cloverdale or Surrey.
The other problem is getting a agreement CN and CP Connecting track cn Main line to Delta port. And the main reason why the Province or BC transit is not operational funds. Nothing stopping a private individual of running a passenger surfer.
Zwei replies: You haven’t a clue what you are talking about.
It is so obvious that Legoman is working for TransLink or has a contract with Translink to troll this blog. So much misleading and cherry picked information.
I find it interesting that just this morning I sent an Email out to several politicians, the media and city governments about the 6 week King George Station closure, including “As costs mount, keeping the venerable SkyTrain Light metro in Operation, plus the estimated $11 billion needed to complete the present 21.7 km expansions of the Expo and Millennium Lines, the 130 km Rail for the Valley/Leewood regional railway connecting Marpole to Chilliwack via the old BC Electric Interurban route, seems to be a bargain at a cost under $2 billion!”.
The same troll tactic is being used on the the Restore island Rail blog.
It seems people taking note and the SkyTrain Lobby, including the NDP do not like it one bit.
I wonder; at what cost?
Yes it seems today, legitimate debate is now thwarted by trolling. Our government has had several scandals with this and there plans for laws to try to stem the rot.
In your part of the world, it is very bad. I just do not think those who support more light metro, truly comprehend the fact that Vancouver is an international laughing stock.
Your SkyTrain has been well studied and it has been found wanting, but your politcans demand doing the same thing over and over again, hoping to get things right this time.
Like our subway crase in the 60’s and 70’s, the taxpayer runs out of both money and patience.
Yes @Legoman you do have to negotiate with the railways until the transit agency owns the track.
The harsh truth is many transit agencies are just afraid to negotiate, period, end of debate, they are afraid of looking bad, so they say a whole lot of crap to cover this simple fact up. Translink is no different.
I have seen negotiations done with railways, it can be done. The best part is that as the railways get use to the transit agency being there, many railways become reliant on those transit agencies. Those agencies are the commercial railways best, most prolific source of maintenance funding. Both CN and CP agreed mainly when the press isn’t paying attention that, GO Transit is their single biggest source of track maintenance funding they have in Ontario. So if you are dealing with railways, you have to negotiate at some point. Many agencies throughout North America other than GO have been quite successful. It’s the best and cheapest way to unlock unbelievably large amounts of underused or completely unused railway lines.
The line as is doesn’t go everywhere you need! No problem. Just add on a section of new right of way at key points and take them to where you need them. Lots of agencies have done this, its not magic, just good routing. Metrolink in the LA basin has done this quite a few times. The Roadrunner in New Mexico. BART did this with its eBart line. Small sections of the Sprinter between Oceanside and Escondido did this to avoid lengthy trips off the main route.
GO Lakeshore East Expansion with its current extension from Oshawa east, through Courtice to Bowmanville, finally breaks away from paralleling the CN main line by building several new sections connecting a former GM spur to connect to a new right of way that parallels the more northerly and superior CP Bellvile Subdivision.
In Ottawa, Line #4 breaks away from the existing former CPR line (Trillium Line/Line #2) to go to the airport. Something that believe it or not, the CPR suggested, when the CPR still owned the O-Train Line and the National Capital Railway simply rented it.
Just for everyone’s interest, the Master Agreement with the CPR ,with the Pratt Livingstone corridor (the line between Langley and Cloverdale, allows up to 33% wheelage for passenger services, with all improvement made paid for by the current owner, the CPR. The south Fraser line in Burnaby and Vancouver is up for sale and there is also a statutory agreement fro passenger services crossing the Fraser River Rail bridge.
https://www.railforthevalley.com/latest-news/zweisystem/the-master-agreement-allowing-passenger-service-on-the-interurban-line/