Vancouver Will Need To Adopt Lower-Cost LRT In Its Lesser Corridors – Updated

Posted by on Wednesday, August 9, 2023 · 3 Comments 

The consensus is the same, Metro Vancouver will need to adopt lower-cost LRT for its future transit needs.

This was first posted in 2019 and the costs and the financial numbers have changed somewhat.

Currently, the province and metro Vancouver is spending over $11 billion for 21.7 km of new light-metro line, including the Broadway subway and the Surrey/Langley Expo Line extension.

Absolute madness, spending over $11 billion on two extension that will carry about the same customer flows of the current Broadway 99 B-Line bus.

An inquiry is needed NOW!

From 2019

But, eventually, Vancouver will need to adopt lower-cost LRT in its lesser corridors, or else limit the extent of its rail system. And that seems to make some TransLink people very nervous.

Gerald Fox, 2008.

cartoon1

Here is the big crunch which TransLink seems deathly afraid of, do they continue with the now obsolete and often renamed and now called Movia Automatic Light Metro, or join the rest of the world and build with light rail?

Here are the cost comparisons so far.

  1. McCallum’s Expo Line extension to Langley – $3.2 billion and climbing ($1.6 billion funded). (Updated: total cost $4.6 to $5.1 billion)
  2. The original LRT plan – $1.6 billion and climbing, (but not so much).
  3. Broadway subway to Arbutus – $3 billion plus (funded to $$2.8 billion). (Updated: projected cost said to be $2.7 billion)
Total: $4.4 billion, funded for about 14 km of Movia Automatic Light Metro. (Updated: Upfront cost $7.3 to $7.8 billion)
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Here are the unfunded costs, so far.
  1. Broadway subway completion to UBC (7 km) – a minimum of $5 billion.
  2. Expo/Millennium Line rehab – $2 billion to $3 billion. (Updated: Re-signalling $1.47 billion, signed contract – Electric rehab now estimated $2 billion)
  3. Completion of the Expo line extension to Langley (9 km) – a minimum of $1.6 billion. (Updated: The project is now a 16 km, Surrey to Langley)
Total unfunded costs: A minimum of $7.6 billion, for about 16 km of MALM . (Updated: Total cost for both the E&M Line extensions now in excess of $11 billion)
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Total, a minimum of $12 billion for about 30 km of light metro lines. (Updated: $11 billion+ for 21.7 km of line)
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The dark horse:
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Vancouver to Chilliwack DMU./EMU service costing $1.5 billion (unfunded and unwanted by TransLink). Or, put another way $1.5 billion for about 100 km of DMU/EMU service.
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As things stand, the dark horse, the reinstated interurban with modern vehicles, would probably attract the most customers, at a more  affordable cost.
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The problem we have is who is listening?
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The politicians don’t seem to give a damn about how much it costs. Neither do the voters, until they are sure its going to directly increase their taxes, which all SkyTrain extensions will.
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The lessons of the 2015 plebiscite are lost and both the politicians and the bureaucracy, with both desperately trying to obscure the financial costs for fear of an anti tax uprising.
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$12 billion minimum for 30 km of Movia Automatic Light metro; think about it.

Updated for August 2023, total cost for 21.7 km of Movia Automatic Light Metro is in excess of $11 billion!

Category: Politics, Rail for the Valley, Reference Material / Education, Repost, SkyTrain and the Canada Line, Surrey LRT, TramTrain, zweisystem · Tags: , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , ,

Comments

3 Responses to “Vancouver Will Need To Adopt Lower-Cost LRT In Its Lesser Corridors – Updated”
  1. legoman0320 says:
    August 12, 2023 at 3:12 am

    Compared to the other transit projects in Canada I think this is money will spent. Economic benefits The skytrain out way any LRT project Long-term for the region. Translink will have no problem getting the funds for regional rail. It’s on the Fraser Valley to say they need or want from the city council for Fraser Valley. And pay for it in operations along with construction.

    Zwei replies: Again, you must be joking. In 1993 the subsidy for the Expo Line, just to new Westminster was more than the trolley and diesel buses combined. The operating subsidy is o huge today that TransLink refuses to release the number.

    SkyTrain has been one of the most studied, new build R/T systems in the world and no one want the damn thing. In fact Bombardier could not give away free LIM motors to those who bought the conventional version. There are no real economic benefits, rather huge subsidies and wonky transit planning that will cost the taxpayer, not billions, but tens of billions of dollars in the future.

    Sadly you are so out of touch with both fiscal and transit reality, that much of what you say is fairy tales.

  2. legoman0320 says:
    August 12, 2023 at 8:35 pm

    Whatever you say is not factua (guessl Game) or contradicting. History of operations here and Best practices for the sky train. leveraging the bad history of the start or accidents again and again. To make a point of not to buy or upgrade or expand rail system. the cities in the USA or Waterloo that are exclusively LRT Haven’t been gaining ridership. All automatic Rail lines have a higher operating cost Period. God per sake, you make your own article. Saying that they are wrong And LRT good. why are the Cost high right now? For the sky train is rail replacement. old component on the mark 1. In Winter manual operations Due to the track Intrusion detection. All of these problems are scheduled to be fixed in the 10 year priority plan. Faster and more reliable options than a bus for the lower mainland. And you like to talk about politics. But you are avoiding putting the blame on certain regional mayor in Fraser Valley. Mandate BC transit Victoria is managing province transit funding. Translink mandate his to allow the growth of the Lower mainland. Operational funds are capped by city councils. Fairbox revenue could go to all setting the operational cost or fund expansions or infrastructure. I know that there are limited funds for Public dollars aka tax money. But there’s no one to collect if there’s over Spend it. And on my side note, it could hurt the Canadian dollar. Are you there just being salty? Because no one wants to hear your LRT Future for everyone.

    Zwei replies: Well what I have posted is factual and you persist with the SkyTrain myth. In fact your ramblings tells me how uninformed you are. It is the typical; “You repeat a SkyTrain lie often enough, the people are bound to believe it”.

  3. zweisystem says:
    August 13, 2023 at 12:55 am

    Show me the money! $11 billion to build 21.7 km of the Expo and Millennium Lines is unsustainable.

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