For Mr. B – Dealing With The Facts

Again, a SkyTrain supporter casts doubt on veracity of statements contained in posts.
So, to clarify any doubt, the following comes from a December 1983, article,The Direction of TTC Planning For the 1980’s by Phillip Webb, which appeared in Modern Tramways.
This interesting item certainly raised my attention.
For further clarification, ICTS was renamed ALRT for the sale to Vancouver and the proprietary cars still operate on the Expo and Millennium Lines, on the SkyTrain light-metro system.
Read and learn.



This little gem appears at the end of the article.

And remember a modern tram has two to three times the capacity of a PCC Car. Do the math!

Hi Zwei
I’ve been studying and reading through the history of transit planning with respect to the North Shore, because I am working on a project about essentially what the future does or doesn’t hold for people who live here.
Over the course of this research I have pretty much come to accept that we are simply never going to be priority, and that the most we can hope for is a slightly improved quasi-BRT bus line to metrotown… but in the event that a rail connection to the North shore ever does get traction – what would you suggest as the best option?
You do make it abundantly clear how much you hate the skytrain (and I have learned that I might be considered a part of the ‘skytrain lobby’ eek! I’m just a dude who likes rapid transit!) but I would be interested to hear your dream scenario, were you to be given the reigns to design a connection.
At the moment I am of the opinion that there are only three or maybe four places on the north shore that would actually be trafficked enough- Park Royal, Capilano Mall (the upcoming redevelopment), Lonsdale, and Phibbs. So which end of the harbour would you put a line on?
Which technology would you go with? Are there any existing LRT systems which you think are great examples, or that we could learn from?
I have had a few run-ins with the o-train and while the cars themselves are fine, and the stations are nice, driving the same route is literally twice as fast… the trains are not frequent enough, and it takes 30 mins to get 12km (25km/h…. ewww) so I think we would need to do better to lure north vancouverites out of their vehicles.
I’ve rambled enough. I’d love to get your insight, having read through everything North Shore on your page (see “Pipe Dreams” May 30 đź‘Ť) I definitely believe that these cities are not exploring all their options, and there must be much better value picks which could cover a much larger area than Translink are currently working on.
Cheers, and happy new year
ps if Haveacow is around I also love your comments, they have been insightful and have definitely opened my mind
Zwei replies: Transit to the North shore is tricky, but any thought of “SkyTrain” to the North Shore is a pipe dream and nothing more.
The following post from 2021, spells it all out.
https://www.railforthevalley.com/latest-news/zweisystem/the-north-shores-hobsons-choice/
Look, I do not hate SkyTrain, but I tell the truth about this proprietary transit system and for this reason, the truth, TransLink can’t sue me. Essentially with Skytrain, the region spends up to 10 times more for rail transit than it should, for absolutely no benefit. This translates to money that could have been spent expanding the system.
What should we be doing?
I think the following would be best for the region.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karlsruhe_model
The Karlsruhe Model is the only way, i think, the North Shore will get any sort of rail transit.
Fantastic, thanks for the direction!
Thank you for the nice comments Mr. MAK!
I still find it interesting that after much study, the powers that be in Greater Vancouver found that the best line alignment for the “North Shore” is a line that will cost billions (regardless of the operating technology), forces the rider to transfer to get to the region’s top transit destination, instead of a more direct and shorter route, not to mention a cheaper route.
Yet with a straight face, Translink’s planning staff tells everyone who uses and doesn’t use transit that, a line that will take the residents of the North Shore dozens of kilometres out of their way, costs billions more than other studied alternatives, serves mostly areas of lower passenger need, will force the majority of its passengers to transfer to another unbuilt planned rapid transit line (by the way a rapid transit line with a lower building priority than the line to the North Shore) and from what I have read and been led to believe, a majority transit passengers actually want this. WOW!
Over 40 years of rosy misinformation by the government and media has lead us to this. No one questions “motherhood and apple pie” transit solutions. No one reminds the people that the last four system sold, who involved bribery; one was refused funding by senior government (the Canadian government funded it) and one was built to steal technology. Not a healthy sales history isn’t it!
Oh yes I forgot, Mr Mak, don’t let the driving speed fool you. A vast majority of Ottawa’s government workers are still only going to work by car 2 to 3 times a week. This is why our roads are currently faster. When the government workers are finally back to 5 days a week and the corresponding commercial traffic grows with it, the traffic in Ottawa will grow exponentially.