The Upcoming SkyTrain Mk.5 Train Fiasco
Zwei told ya so!
First, the 16 km Expo line extension cost is now put at $6 billion; $7 billion if one includes the operations and Maintenance Centre Number 5.
The next shoe to drop will be the announcement that the 5.7 km Millennium Line (Broadway subway) extension to Arbutus, will top $4 billion.
And the last straw, after much hype and hoopla, the SkyTrain Mk. 5 trains (consisting of 5 car open vestibule stock) are fast becoming a hugely expensive money pit.
Comments from our transportation expert, Mr. Cow, tells a sad tale of the perils of operating a proprietary railway.
“During a visit, well more than a few years ago, the maintenance chief said at the time that a 5 section Skytrain would require 1.5 to 1.75 times the maintenance time and of course, much more maintenance track space. To replace the Mark 1 cars with much larger 5 section Skytrains, he said would require all existing maintenance tracks upgraded in space and equipment, no fewer than 10 new maintenance spaces or the equivalent of 18 to 20 Mk. 5 sized maintenance tracks and no less than a 40% increase in the amount of staff.
The big problem no one is telling you, the new Mk 5 cars require almost twice the maintenance in terms of equipment and time that Translink planned for and was told by Bombardier they would need. Existing staff are having big issues due to the large amount of new “updated” systems on the Mk. 5 cars. These systems have been equipped by new and unknown suppliers. Retraining is taking far longer and is costing 60% more than expected. Now that Bombardier North America is being run by its new masters, Alstom, it appears they (Alstom) essentially have little concern for the ex-Bombardier product. They aren’t interested in solving this issue with the Mk. 5’s training issues and equipment problems. Translink was told by Alstom, “this is what you ordered, we are providing the vehicles and the various training packages (maintenance & operations), the rest is up to you”.
This is why OMC #5 was so critical. It was to have all Mk 5 capable maintenance track and equipment from the first day it opened. The earlier maintenance centres, other than OMC #4, aren’t able to handle the Mk. 5’s yet. They lack many key pieces of equipment, space is limited (because they were designed to handle smaller vehicles) and training is taking much much longer than planned. The equipment issues on the Mk. 5 trains haven’t been solved yet. They are also not likely to be solved quickly because of disinterest at Alstom’s board”
So let me spell it out in simple terms. Alstom is not interested in selling the proprietary MALM light-metro (erroneously called SkyTrain, which is the name of Vancouver’s light metro system); Alstom does not want to deal with Translink. In all likelihood, Alstom will abandon production of MALM after the last paid for car leaves the assembly plant.
For all the bumf spewed by the SkyTrain Lobby, regional mayors, TransLink, UBC, the premier, what we call SkyTrain is a proprietary railway and all the predictions that proprietary railways do not age well and tend to become classic White Elephants that causing huge financial ills to taxpayers, are coming true.
The experts back in the day tried to warn us, but our politcans remained deaf to the truth.
Guys chill. This is relatively common with new vehicles. Ottawa for example is having software and acceptance issues with the Stadler Flirt’s. As with Ottawa, I’m sure Translink will figure out fixes for training and minor equipment issues. What is really important is that to get regular maintenance up and running it will take time but also money. Something Translink is kind of short on. I’m sure with the available Mk.5 trainsets, Translink’s maintenance staff will find a way to muddle through.
However, they are short on maintenance space (tracks and available staff). They are short on equipment upgrades for existing yards (new equipment to handle the larger vehicles and its newer systems. You need money to fix those problems.
If you are still going though the fire and pain of building the low performing Skytrain extension to the outer limits (Sorry Langley, don’t take it personally, I’m being cheeky there), then you better be really serious about OMC #5.
Your existing maintenance hubs are very far away which means schedules for maintenance becomes that more pressurised. It will take serious amounts of juggling extra maintenance schedule time, to get the vehicles out earlier to start their day in Langley. All at a time when operating budgets maybe slashed. That puts a tremendous amount of pressure on your rather overwhelmed OMC #4 and its valiant staff. I hope you pay these people a lot. Workers under that kind of pressure find ways to leave or get pilfered by other transit properties (stealing good maintenance staff is common in North America) because other maintenance people realise good workers immediately when they see it.
As more of those new Mk. 5 trains arrive your lack of maintenance space and resources becomes more and more critical. Political pronouncements from management are fine but has anyone talked to the men and women actually doing the work (my guess is a very guarded, not really).
Ottawa got into trouble because they suddenly expected freshly trained LRT maintenance staff to perform their jobs as if they have been doing it for a decade or longer, on the first day of service! Regardless of how much simulation and trial running you do, nothing and I mean nothing beats real experience.
OMC #5 becomes really, really important, and at a cost of somewhere north of $700 Million plus new staff costs, which means a total of somewhere between $1Billion – $1.2 Billion for everything in OMC #5 a cost, which doesn’t seem to be part of the $6 Billion figure quoted by Translink, all at a time where your transit operating budgets are being put under extreme downward pressure. I hope you have lots and lots money Vancouver, this doesn’t look good right now.
Having worked for Bombardier, I can tell you that Alstom has no fewer than 3 different Alstom vehicles or automated rail transit operating systems and transport systems that compete directly with Automated Movia Light Metro Transportation System (Skytrain) and vehicle technology formerly sold by Bombardier.
Both Bombardier and Alstom have sold over 7000 models of their Citadis and Flexity LRV”s, that’s where your probably going to see a new design first. They will of course supply parts and systems to both for years to come but a pairing down of 2 LRV models to a single new one, will definitely occur.
Both Bombardier and Alstom have sold thousands of full scale Metro trainsets. There will probably be a new model of Metro vehicle, similar to Alstom’s existing Metro product that can be scaled down to Light Metro vehicles ax well. All built with a heavy dose of Bombardier technology, expect that soon as well. As with the former LRV models, Alstom will more than likely provide previous Metro vehicle buyers with parts for decades to come.
Then the Skytrain with only 2 transit properties that have even bothered to buy replacement vehicles for their Skytrain systems, Vancouver and Kuala Lumpur, out of a total of 6 existing systems. Only one Vancouver, has any trains on order. As I said before, Alstom has 3 different rail vehicle choices that can be made driver less and 1 of them, can like the Skytrain, be sold as an all encompassing Light Metro Transportation System but none of them use Linear Induction Motors. I seriously doubt they will seriously invest in that technology, when simple electric propulsion motors are so much easier to deal with, cheaper and far more common. Vancouver take note, nobody is buying the technology that you did.
I think the issue is TransLink lack of any clarity as to the costs of extending, operating and maintaining the SkyTrain light metro system. Translink is in the hole $600 million and shows no sign in doing anything to reduce costs and instead uses fear tactics to manipulate politicians to support more monies. The big problem is the taxpayer is maxed out and Translink is held in high odor by the taxpayer.
1 track at OMC 1 has been modified to accommodate MK 5 of Inspection and some maintenance. AT BCRTC only complaint from maintenance is the lack of spare components. it not manufacturers, but due to logistics transporting parts. Skytrain attendance say no mechanical problems with MK 5 … so far.
MK 5 equipment and features that they have over MK 1:
Air conditioning
Destination display
Door overhead display
Perimeter door lights
Bike securing apparatus
On board diagnostics
More folk codes can be related to Operation Control Center(OCC)
MK 5 Set 1 is Completed: Inspection, Yard testing and Night testing on EXPO line. Underway night testing on M line. Next is day time testing non revenue.
Set 2 is Completed: Inspection and Yard testing. Underway doing night testing on the m line. Next is testing on the EXPO line during the night.
Both sets 1 and 2 are supposed to be in revenue service before December or Before Taylor Swift’s vancouver concerts at BC Place.
Set 3 Being tested at Kingston test track.
Set 4 Being built at Kingston test track.
The innovative body is the same used for the monorail systems being built. Only differences propulsion and suspension assembly. MK Series LIM and axles are not manufactured by Alstom. The original LIM MK 1 Still in use and will reach over 40 years in age. If you bring up the 1990 Skytrain problem its Train 133 and 134 problematic train from day one with mechanical and electrical issues and 1995 Train 143 and 144 also problematic trains with this one. Being the most downtime holder of Fleet. Both scrapped in December of last year.
Train 39 and 40 early retired and on a movie set*(Not seen at a scrap yard)
OMC 5 is Increasing passenger capacity for the EXPO line and more efficient maintenance of the SLS extension. No necessary for operations SLS.
Mr zwei
Translink is reducing corporate cost up $100 Million from more competitive bidding processes and reducing the amount of outsourcing. More information coming this September on plan B service cuts.
Cost per Vehicle Revenue Hour of skytrain operations is $128.65 or Canada line $576 (CAD) 2019
Vs US Averages (in USD)
Metro/Subway $$317.47
LRT $334.09
BRT $149.10
Zwei replies: Ok Kevin Quinn or whatever your name may be, you are using Translink’s standard “Gish Gallop” to justify your major exaggerations of the truth.
First of all, TransLink never includes their government subsidies when calculation anything. Thus any financial calculation is stuff and nonsense. You may fool the locals with your BS, but not the international crowd. No one wants the damn thing sunshine and Alstom will bring that lesson down hard on Translink and the taxpayers in the very near future.
Sorry, I have been around the SkyTrain game for 4 decades and i can tell you, with TransLink, the old “BS baffles brains” continues.
Innovative body shell? What the Innovia bodyshell is a universal one designed t\for Bombardier’s various proprietary and conventional light metro/monorail systems. Evidently universal body shells is standard in the industry.
Actually, most of your post is gibberish designed to mislead from the real story.
Ah, your Skytrain system, a never ending story. Milan, many years ago was interested in the ALRT system but when their technicians had a closer look, they abandoned all efforts as the system was considered dangerous and expensive.