It will be interesting in Quebec, comparing Montreal’s REM light-metro to Quebec city’s European style tram.
Quebec City Tramway details
The Quebec City $4 billion tramway project will involve the construction of tunnel sections and 36 stations, five of which will be underground. The proposal includes incorporating an integrated system of tramways, electric tram bus and reserved bus lanes.
It will have two routes. The first route will be a 23km-long line, connecting Charlesbourg to Cap-Rouge via Parliament Hill. Approximately 3.5km of the tramway will pass through underground sections. The 17km-long second route will be a fully electrified bus rapid transit (BRT) line served by articulated buses.
40 years of SkyTrain light-metro has created a transit planning vacuum in Metro Vancouver, where a world acknowledged affordable and user-friendly transit mode has not only been ignored by local politicians and planners, the tram has been actively libeled and slandered by the mainstream media, Metro Vancouver politicians and brueacrarts and the provincial government.
What is so sad, despite the federal, provincial and civic politcal spin of fake news and alternative facts, if we do not accept the modern tram has a proven tool to fight global warming, we (society) will ,loose the fight to minimize environmental damage to the region.
Until our local politicians grow up and stop playing trains, by planning $3 billion subways to nowhere or a $3.95 billion line into a bog, the environmental fight will be over.
Unlike Calgary or Edmonton, which operate 1980’s LRT, which was based on German Stadtbahn; Ottawa, where its new LRT is more like a light metro than LRT; or Toronto where LRT is planned as a light metro and only now is the streetcar system being updated with modern trams; Quebec is planning a tramway.
Quebec’s new tramway will be a showcase of a 21st century tramway operation and philiosophy.
Quebec City tramway finally gets green light as province gives unconditional approval
Mayor Bruno Marchand says project is needed to reduce emissions, improve mobility
CBC News ·
Quebec City’s tramway project has been in development for years, but the CAQ government had threatened to put conditions on its approval. (Ville de Québec)
The Legault government has finally authorized Quebec City to launch its long-delayed tramway project and Mayor Bruno Marchand says he’s ready to get started.
“We have many environmental issues that we have to address. And we have to deliver solutions. This is a great solution,” Marchand said on Wednesday after cabinet approved decrees without any of the conditions that had previously been discussed.
Quebec Transport Minister François Bonnardel said it is now up to the city’s mayor to better communicate the benefits of the tramway project in order to convince as many citizens as possible.
And that’s just what Marchand began that very afternoon, touting the importance of a project that he said will help carry the city into a more environmentally friendly future by reducing emissions and improving mobility.
“It’s the best way to respond to some of the big environmental challenges that we face,” he said.
Premier François Legault and his government had voiced concerns over the project’s potential impact on vehicular traffic.
The government demanded better social acceptability before authorizing the tramway and was at first saying the adoption of related ministerial decrees would be conditional on the development of shared streets along the route.
Last month, Marchand harshly criticized the Legault government for standing in the way of the project.
Quebec Transport Minister François Bonnardel said on Wednesday that it is now up to Quebec City’s mayor to get support from residents for the tramway project. (Radio-Canada)
Then on Tuesday, Legault said he was not going to interfere in the powers of the city by remodeling “the layout and the detail.”
“It will be up to the mayor of Quebec City to decide how he does that,” he told reporters.
Bonnardel said regardless of the unconditional decrees, the provincial government still expects a certain level of social acceptability for the project. However, he declined to delve further into what that means.
“Everyone can have their own definition of social acceptability. I have mine. I will keep it to myself,” he said.
Clash between city, province
This should put an end to the first head-to-head clash between the Coalition Avenir Québec government and Quebec City’s new mayor, but Marchand says that’s not what’s important.
“It’s not about the ego of the mayor. It’s all about the citizens of Quebec,” said Marchand, who expects the tramway to be up and running on city streets by 2028.
Quebec City Mayor Bruno Marchand says the tramway project is key to improving mobility and addressing urgent environmental concerns. (Radio-Canada)
He said this project is about carrying the city into the future, getting motorists off the road and reducing emissions in a time when environmental issues are urgent.
“We have to act and we have to act quickly,” he said.
The project, which will cost at least $4 billion, has been delayed by several months, and the Liberal opposition said last week that each day of delay costs the project $274,000.
The Quebec government’s decision has unlocked $124 million to begin preparations. Construction is to start in the summer of 2023.
Labeaume’s dream passed down to new mayor
Quebec City’s tramway was longtime mayor Régis Labeaume’s passion project but was passed on to Marchand when Labeaume retired from municipal politics in November 2021.
Quebec City and the province have gone back and forth for years on the proposed route — whether it would be part of an eventual third link between Quebec City and Lévis, and how the tramway would be incorporated into existing city infrastructure.
They finally reached a verbal agreement on a redesign just over a year ago, and since then, it’s just been a matter of these final decrees.
Now with the project moving forward, Marchand said he has work to do when it comes to convincing all Quebec City residents of the project’s importance.
Some residents will never see it his way, he said, but he is determined to make a difference for future generations.
“We greatly appreciate today that we are able to move forward on time to deliver according to the deadlines that we have promised,” Marchand said.
with files from Radio-Canada, La Canadienne presse and CBC’s Émilie Warren
Every once and awhile, for a giggle and a laugh, I check the Skytrain for Surrey website and see if the anti-LRT story about Quebec City’s cancelled LRT system is still up on the site. Now the classic anti-Ottawa LRT article around the fall 2021 accident/closing is still up as well as the 2009 City of Ottawa public meeting about when the LRT became the final choice as the form of rapid transit, when they could have had a light metro instead (Skytrain like system from Alstom), ahh the classics never die. However, our friend over there has indeed taken down the story about the cancellation of the Quebec City LRT, it only took 8 months but cudos, you had to acknowledge reality. Now with the national inflation rate officially at 6.1%, how long is it going to be before the Skytrain to Langley is delayed long past 2030? That puts the 2023 final price range between $4.25 Billion and $4.395 Billion (this is the time and point of the development process at which, the project will actually go to tender). Wow, remember when the Mayor of Surrey said it was going to cost $1.63 Billion for the whole 16 km?
Zwei replies: I again have heard that the budget for the Expo Line extension will be around $4.5 billion, with ground stability issues in the Serpentine Valley being the cause. There does seem to be mild panic at TransLink, with construction. One mayoralty candidate, Hardwick, is decidedly anti subway and pro LRT. If elected, it will be a game changer for them. The mayoralty candidates in Surrey seem to think the line will be completed by 2027 or 2028, with one mayoralty candidate claiming that once opened, hundreds of thousands of bad, bad polluting cars will be taken off the road.
What I find interesting, the chair and vice chair of the Mayor’s council on transit, mayor Cote and Froese are not seeking reelection, which seems to me to be like rats leaving a sinking ship. Could it be that some very bad news will make headlines right after the civic election?
Ridership from suburban routes are not going back to the bus as I recently saw a 602 semi express bus stopped at the first bus stop in south Delta with one person on board! observations on other suburban service show buses with fewer than to customers at peak times.
It is funny quebec is spending 4 billion on a tramway. It says the second line will be a 17km electric bus line. Basically it is just a trolly bus line with its own lanes like in Vancouver. Such a waste of money for a bus lane.
Planning is now happening to extend the skytrain to UBC.
Skytrain will be extended to Langley, it will go right over that boggy section.
Money well spent.
Zwei replies: Actually the BRT system will be on a dedicated R-o-W and can be upgraded to LRT at a later date, much cheaper than the Expo line extension to Langley.
Unfortunatel,y the Trambus part of the program has been axed but they will continue to upgrade express buslane network Quebec City already has.
The main reason given was the 700 million dollar increase in price of the tramway because of the time based inflation due to the BAPE’s (Quebec’s independent but provincially important environmental agency) opposition to major aspects of the first version of the project. Inflation in the cost of property needed for the project due to people realizing they could also “milk” the city out of some cash.
The second issue was the Federal Government funding came from a program that treated the two types of vehicles and vehicle rights of way as two different projects not one. This also forced the City of Montreal to “sell off” $800 million of funding from this program to fund a tram project there due to the fact that the federal funding in this program had a limit, it couldn’t afford both projects. So as Quebec City waited, Montreal had to officially declare it was no longer interested anymore in there tram project, which caused huge political issues inside Montreal’s City Hall. It didn’t seem to matter that the City of Montreal had received 50% funding for the $5.5 Billion REM project. Which is now $7 Billion, for which the Federal and Provincial Government had to cover the project’s cost overruns at $750 million each, so far. It also didn’t matter that the Federal Government is funding 33% of the Montreal’s $6.4 Billion, 7km long, Metro Blue Line extension. I think Montreal politicians were given a talking too by the feds. $2+ Billion for the REM, $1.3 Billion for the Blue Line plus future support for the $10:Billion REM dl’est project. I think you can give up $800 Million for your only partially funded tram project, so Quebec City can fund it’s tram project.
One of BAPE’s biggest problems with this project was that the project included both buses and trains. This is also a major aspect the project’s opposition to the project as well. “Is it a bus or train project?” The city government was never able to articulate that they felt that electric buses operating in some “Pie-IX style” BRT busway corridors was more appropriate than LRT operations in every corridor. It was important that BRT corridors would be convertible to rail in the future (like Ottawa’s Transitways). Politics won, so it became an LRT only project.
@ Jardin, the B.C. provincial government and federal government can’t afford politically to fund a $4.3 Billion Skytrain project that will move fewer passengers on opening day than several of Toronto’s traffic trapped streetcar lines, already do. While the second phase of the much loved (especially by developers) Millennium Line Broadway extension to UBC (costing $4.4 Billion and rising), is languishing. There just isn’t enough money or political support for both.
Also even if they, the provincial government, comes through with funding for both projects (both are provincial projects, Translink has been sidelined by their inability to even put in 10% funding into them), they can’t turn around and say to Victoria, yes we dropped at a minimum, over $5.5 Billion into Vancouver but you can’t have money for your needed rail line on Vancouver Island, which in theory, can transport people and freight. So either everyone gets money or Surrey has to wait, long past 2030, just like I predicted when the much more useful LRT project was changed to a Skytrain.
Every once and awhile, for a giggle and a laugh, I check the Skytrain for Surrey website and see if the anti-LRT story about Quebec City’s cancelled LRT system is still up on the site. Now the classic anti-Ottawa LRT article around the fall 2021 accident/closing is still up as well as the 2009 City of Ottawa public meeting about when the LRT became the final choice as the form of rapid transit, when they could have had a light metro instead (Skytrain like system from Alstom), ahh the classics never die. However, our friend over there has indeed taken down the story about the cancellation of the Quebec City LRT, it only took 8 months but cudos, you had to acknowledge reality. Now with the national inflation rate officially at 6.1%, how long is it going to be before the Skytrain to Langley is delayed long past 2030? That puts the 2023 final price range between $4.25 Billion and $4.395 Billion (this is the time and point of the development process at which, the project will actually go to tender). Wow, remember when the Mayor of Surrey said it was going to cost $1.63 Billion for the whole 16 km?
Zwei replies: I again have heard that the budget for the Expo Line extension will be around $4.5 billion, with ground stability issues in the Serpentine Valley being the cause. There does seem to be mild panic at TransLink, with construction. One mayoralty candidate, Hardwick, is decidedly anti subway and pro LRT. If elected, it will be a game changer for them. The mayoralty candidates in Surrey seem to think the line will be completed by 2027 or 2028, with one mayoralty candidate claiming that once opened, hundreds of thousands of bad, bad polluting cars will be taken off the road.
What I find interesting, the chair and vice chair of the Mayor’s council on transit, mayor Cote and Froese are not seeking reelection, which seems to me to be like rats leaving a sinking ship. Could it be that some very bad news will make headlines right after the civic election?
Ridership from suburban routes are not going back to the bus as I recently saw a 602 semi express bus stopped at the first bus stop in south Delta with one person on board! observations on other suburban service show buses with fewer than to customers at peak times.
Lots and lots of Tesla’s in South Delta!
It is funny quebec is spending 4 billion on a tramway. It says the second line will be a 17km electric bus line. Basically it is just a trolly bus line with its own lanes like in Vancouver. Such a waste of money for a bus lane.
Planning is now happening to extend the skytrain to UBC.
Skytrain will be extended to Langley, it will go right over that boggy section.
Money well spent.
Zwei replies: Actually the BRT system will be on a dedicated R-o-W and can be upgraded to LRT at a later date, much cheaper than the Expo line extension to Langley.
Unfortunatel,y the Trambus part of the program has been axed but they will continue to upgrade express buslane network Quebec City already has.
The main reason given was the 700 million dollar increase in price of the tramway because of the time based inflation due to the BAPE’s (Quebec’s independent but provincially important environmental agency) opposition to major aspects of the first version of the project. Inflation in the cost of property needed for the project due to people realizing they could also “milk” the city out of some cash.
The second issue was the Federal Government funding came from a program that treated the two types of vehicles and vehicle rights of way as two different projects not one. This also forced the City of Montreal to “sell off” $800 million of funding from this program to fund a tram project there due to the fact that the federal funding in this program had a limit, it couldn’t afford both projects. So as Quebec City waited, Montreal had to officially declare it was no longer interested anymore in there tram project, which caused huge political issues inside Montreal’s City Hall. It didn’t seem to matter that the City of Montreal had received 50% funding for the $5.5 Billion REM project. Which is now $7 Billion, for which the Federal and Provincial Government had to cover the project’s cost overruns at $750 million each, so far. It also didn’t matter that the Federal Government is funding 33% of the Montreal’s $6.4 Billion, 7km long, Metro Blue Line extension. I think Montreal politicians were given a talking too by the feds. $2+ Billion for the REM, $1.3 Billion for the Blue Line plus future support for the $10:Billion REM dl’est project. I think you can give up $800 Million for your only partially funded tram project, so Quebec City can fund it’s tram project.
One of BAPE’s biggest problems with this project was that the project included both buses and trains. This is also a major aspect the project’s opposition to the project as well. “Is it a bus or train project?” The city government was never able to articulate that they felt that electric buses operating in some “Pie-IX style” BRT busway corridors was more appropriate than LRT operations in every corridor. It was important that BRT corridors would be convertible to rail in the future (like Ottawa’s Transitways). Politics won, so it became an LRT only project.
@ Jardin, the B.C. provincial government and federal government can’t afford politically to fund a $4.3 Billion Skytrain project that will move fewer passengers on opening day than several of Toronto’s traffic trapped streetcar lines, already do. While the second phase of the much loved (especially by developers) Millennium Line Broadway extension to UBC (costing $4.4 Billion and rising), is languishing. There just isn’t enough money or political support for both.
Also even if they, the provincial government, comes through with funding for both projects (both are provincial projects, Translink has been sidelined by their inability to even put in 10% funding into them), they can’t turn around and say to Victoria, yes we dropped at a minimum, over $5.5 Billion into Vancouver but you can’t have money for your needed rail line on Vancouver Island, which in theory, can transport people and freight. So either everyone gets money or Surrey has to wait, long past 2030, just like I predicted when the much more useful LRT project was changed to a Skytrain.