Public Meeting Re: The Arbutus Corridor
The Arbutus Corridor: A Way Forward?
You might think that thereai??i??s no solution to the conflict over the Arbutus rail corridor. Canadian Pacific Rail wants $100 million for its right-of-way. The City of Vancouver has offered $20m. Neighbourhood gardens, longstanding although trespassing, have been ripped up just before harvestai??i?? and electionai??i?? time. Trains, moving or stored, are coming.
But maybe there is a solution. Seven years ago, one of Vancouver’s most extensive and inclusive public consultation and design processes produced a report that recognized the railroadai??i??s financial interest, the neighbourhoodsai??i?? recreational interests, the cityai??i??s transportation interests, and a potentially reasonable way to pay the costs without turning the Arbutus Lands into another downtown. That report has been forgotten by almost everyone. On September 4th, City Conversations is bringing it back for public discussion.
To explain the plan, weai??i??ll have Ken Cameron, a member of the distinguished Advisory Panel for the process and report, and Claudia Laroye, Executive Director, Marpole BIA. Weai??i??ve invited other representatives of neighbourhood groups, the City of Vancouver, and CP Rail. Our presenters will briefly frame the topic. Then itai??i??s your turn to question, challenge, opine and be part of the conversation! Youai??i??re welcome to bring your lunch.
When
Where
Room 1600
Harbour Centre
SFU’s Vancouver Campus
515 W. Hastings
Arbutus corridor looks like a really good place for a tram line with an adjacent walking, cycling and hiking path. I like the nostalgic picture of the old red and white trolleybus (before TransLink in the good old days) with the person walking next to the tracks. For some reason the nutty “Fox in the snow” song which is hard to get out of your head after listening to it seems fitting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvMMznRpn6g
We are grateful and thankful that the effort is being made to bring back rail service on this rail-way.
(Rail-way is hyphenated in our terminology because, like a high-way, it is – or should be – “a corridor through which a movement of people and goods takes place.” If the “corridor” is a public corridor, like a high-way it should be treated as such (re-built, maintained, etc.)
Keep up the good work. Sorry we can’t be there in person but certainly will be in spirit.
It’s about time … both the CPR and the City have been thunderously quiet about the Arbutus Corridor since the end of the Supreme Court Case in 2006. Now new interest is being shown but really … by the CPR for freight traffic in Point Grey … by the City for transit but without any hint of a plan or suggestion of funding?
The only ‘fact’ seemingly on the table is the CP price: it was $100 million when their plan was first presented at the Arbutus Club in 2000 and it is still $100 million … likely the only piece of property in Vancouver that has not changed in value in over a decade.
If either party have something substantive to say, I’d love to hear it.
Alan Herbert
Zwei replies: $100 million for 11 km of rail route is peanuts compared to the proposed Broadway subway cost of $200 million to $300 million a km.
Here is some reality guys, if this line becomes active again that means, streetcar, trolley or LRV type vehicles can’t run on the line! It is against all the operating and safety rules of Transport Canada. These types vehicles are just not allowed to mix with freight, end of story. CP’s insurance will not allow it either, at all! I have been threw this before with the O-Train in Ottawa. If this freight line is active, only a DMU type vehicle with a Commuter Rail operating license will be allowed. Now, like the O-Train you can operate it like a large diesel powered LRT line, instead of a conventional long haul commuter rail operation like the West Coast Express but, you must obviously partner with the railway itself to plan and do this. CP Rail whom I have dealt with before on many other issues is a tough but, a generally fair organization, if you are serious and highly organized. They might even be interested in letting a separate operating group or a operating group that includes them to operate a DMU service just to stick it to the City! Their Engineer’s and Fireman (rail vehicle operators and rail crew) union will also be on board with this because this gives more operating slots to union members, if and only if CP Rail is involved.
Currently, Transport Canada will not let you use low floor vehicles on active freight railway corridors, that I think can be argued because it does not interfere with freight operations. This line can be an experiment in that regard. This makes vehicles like the Statdler DMU a real possibility as well as lowers potential construction costs for stations and platforms. If they are not interested (Transport Canada and CP Rail) which is highly possible, a more conventional DMU, like the Colorado Rail Car DMU (back in production again) or the Lint 41 DMU model soon to be in service in Ottawa is a possibility but, you still will need high conventional railway station platforms. Transport Canada will also demand that there is temporal separation of freight and passenger service as well, also forcibly done in Ottawa with the O-Train service.
Zwei replies: If this service was to be shared with the CPR on a LRT basis, there would be a temporal division between freight and LRT, with freight service after the last scheduled tram service. (Freight trip time 15 minutes per direction). In fact, planners in 1990 said this was feasible and were actively looking for an electric locomotive to haul freight! What I think would fly is a new Westminster to Vanier Park DMU service like what operates in Ottawa with a maximum of three trains per hour in each direction. The best outcome would have metro Vancouver buy the land for future LRT.
Oh no, not again, look who just got a raise:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/translink-bonuses-executive-salaries-draw-criticism-1.2753332
Really, CPR can’t afford the wages at TransLink and will never partner with TransLink.
Honestly, the best thing is for the municipalities to simply split from TransLink (let TransLink run its s-trains) and run municipal transit. All other cities that I know run transit and don’t pay an “appointed by provincial government” oligarchy to skim money to “plan” transit that they (Surrey, Delta… Burnaby) don’t want and can’t afford. Sickening.
Eric, Locomotive Engineers earn a pretty good wage themselves, they have to go through a great deal of training and start at about $85,000 for a year full time position. Many don’t make full time hours and have to work their way up. It is a hard career that requires many hours and days away from home, it’s not a 9 to 5 job. However, once an individual earns his or her hours and gets consistent shifts his or her pay can be impressive. I know several individuals who earn, admittedly with overtime, over $175,000 a year! CP can afford it!
First off, great effort to present alternatives to what Vision Vancouver and all politicians wanna do with this route.
I HIGHLY DOUBT that Vision Vancouver with their developer buddies funding them would AT ALL entertain running a light rail, with their pro-bike lobby and developer licking their chops for this land… I BET the end result would be some parts of the land handed over to Aquilini, Concord and other developer buddies, and the rest some unused bike lane…
IF we get a new government into city hall (people should get out and vote), MAYBE we can get a nice streetcar running on this, along with some bike/walking path and it would be AMAZING for Vancouver, and the most common sense option… but who has common sense in Vancouver city hall, eh?!
@Haveacow, I know but at least CP engineers have some sort of qualifications and CP is a private company or enterprise. TransLink is a government organization with pensions and perks (work from home, call in sick every second day… paternity leave for the husband!).
Here is my comment in the CBC. I’m banned in the Vancouver Sun and Georgia Straight and can’t comment there:
Individuals at TransLink are becoming rich from the misfortune of others who have no choice but to take transit. That’s the most distasteful aspect of the disgusting spectacle at TransLink where swindlers with no real qualifications are pulling in ridiculous salaries for their “good looks”. More vexing is that 90% of them don’t even use transit and drive.
As far as they are concerned, the operation of carbon emitting diesel buses on otherwise zero emission electric trolleybus routes, 88% of the time, is sustainable. They’re just implementing policies to do the same thing over and over again and don’t add any value. They could just as easily be selling used cars.
TransLink is nothing but an oligarchy appointed by the province. TransLink pays for its lavish bureaucracy and overhead by taking a big cut of the money from the municipalities forced to go through TransLink for transit projects. Like that Lotto 649 commercial says: these guys are already on “cloud 649” living the good life at our expense. They have to go, now. Reform transit and get rid of these looters.
PS
Eeeeeeeeek, $45 million in salaries and expenses for planning by TransLink on page 18? What value!
Download the following salary list for reference quick before TransLink removes it from its site. On page 15, what makes Jarvis being paid $402,407 per year worth more than Jensen being paid $77,115 per year? Hard to say, both don’t do anything.
http://www.translink.ca/~/media/documents/about_translink/corporate_overview/annual_reports/translink_employee_remuneration/2013_financial_information_act_filing_remuneration_report.ashx
Respectfully to Eric and some of the more extreme contributors here… PLEASE make your comments a bit more balanced, and sometimes give credit where credit is due (like to Canada Line).
You have such a black and white view on EVERYTHING, everything that Translink does is wrong, and 100% against ALL Skytrain, Subway on ANY ROUTE! This sort of attitude makes you guys look less credible, someone with an agenda or grudge, and limits the impact your educated knowledge of light rail possibilities for Metro Vancouver.
Translink is here to stay, Skytrain is here to stay, Canada Line and more Subway is here to stay… let’s discuss the expansion possibilities across Arbutus Corridor, in Fraser Valley and across BC where Light Rail, Trams, Streetcars makes more sense…
Just my 2 cents to make the effort more productive!
Zwei replies: I do not think you will be so charitable when transit funding will have to come up with at least$2 billion to retrofit the Canada Line to increase capacity. As one of my mentors in Europe once said: “The people in Vancouver have no idea what the transit fraternity in the wider world really think of Translink and of the people who let such mediocrity operate.” Further he said; “The Canada line is the only metro in the world with less capacity than a tram.”
The Canada line will stay, but it will be an anchor on the rest of the transit system.
Hey I had paid paternity leave its about time we caught up to the rest of the civilized world! Besides I hardly call living on EI (which is what paternal leave is paid through at 55% of my working salary without my employer topping me up) a great life. Its about time that people start to realize that without a lot of new children coming up we will never have enough tax payers to pay for anything. If we want to not go insolvent as a country we need as many children out there as retired Baby Boomers to pay for their future old age pensions and healthcare! As is without expanding immigration, there are not enough children to become taxpayers to maintain our current population or even basic government programs,.
Anyway back to my original point. There are always going to be big guys at the top whom earn big salaries that most people don’t think they are deserving of. Andy Byford who runs the TTC is an expert transit manager who left a private rail transport company in Australia to become head of the TTC. It was the job/challenge and location that he liked because it certainly wasn’t the pay. He was earning way over a $1,000,000 a year in Australia doing what he does for the TTC at about $250,000 plus perks. Its becoming very difficult to get quality senior management people in public transit because government jobs just don’t pay enough compared to private companies.
SkyTrain should be run by Translink, and every city should run their own bus systems. A new company can be created to electrify and run the existing West Coast Express and also rent the corridor for more commuter rail/light rail services.